Search
Log in
Subscribe
Jul 22, 2026
Sam Hodgson - Uptown 11 Studios
Sam Hodgson - Uptown 11 Studios
00:00
37:40
Transcript
0:00
Pick one of these three. Uh, tell a story about Bernie Sanders, Tiger Woods, or a wild card. You can pick whoever you want. Clean up, SD PAC knows low-key. Found in the wild, yeah, they tracked me through the feed.
0:11
Howl in the night, not a whole coming sink. Two new necks deep before we order a drink. While been so low, now you walk out with friends. Social coyote, stepping to the den. Sam, where are we right now? Total.
0:23
We're, uh, at the Hardy Hood Cowork space, which is, uh, where Uptown Eleven Studios is, uh, stationed. Uh, that's the company- Yeah... that I founded.
0:30
Uh, and we've got the big, the, the big room down the hall here, the Hardy Hood Coworking space. Nice. We're both in North Park. Yeah. So I biked over. Thankfully, it's cold enough, I'm not pouring sweat.
0:40
But actually, it's really funny, this kinda goes back a little bit to, um, just my, my thesis on connecting 'cause we actually met at a kid's birthday party. That's right. Yeah. [laughs] Through, through a mutual friend.
0:50
But, um, I wanted to, I wanted to start 'cause you, you've done a lot of work with storytelling. Pick one of these three. Uh, tell a story about Bernie Sanders, Tiger Woods, or a wild card. You can pick whoever you want.
1:03
Okay. I do have fascinating stories with all of them. But if... I've got a, I've got a good one, uh, about some people who are pretty famous as well, Kevin Durant and DeMarcus Cousins- Obviously... uh, NBA stars.
1:16
Um, and the story wasn't supposed to be about them, which is like what makes this a little bit interesting. So I got a call to go and travel and do a story about the Golden State Warriors equipment manager. Okay.
1:27
And he was this guy that was just so central to the team, but was kind of like an unsung hero.
1:32
Um, and to do the story properly, we had to follow him through everything, so we had to fly on the private jet with the Golden State Warriors, like between games, which was just wild. Sick.
1:40
Um, so we do the first game in Miami, and then we, you know, get on the overnight and fly with them, um, to New Orleans.
1:48
And on the floor, uh, DeMarcus Cousins and Kevin Durant like start to get into a big scuffle, and they both get kicked out of the game.
1:56
So I'm back in the locker room, the Golden State Warriors locker room, just like photographing the equipment manager, like doing his thing, making everything come together for the teams.
2:06
And all of a sudden, I hear all this screaming and yelling down the hallway.
2:09
And I just see DeMarcus Cousins flying down the hallway toward the Golden State Warriors' equipment room, and he's trying to fight, uh, he's trying to fight Kevin Durant d- like underneath the stadium.
2:21
And there's all these security guards and these yellow jackets going to try and get in his way. And the equipment manager, the guy I'm following, comes out and, you know, he's like five nine. He's like my height, right?
2:31
[laughs] And he's getting there right up in DeMarcus Cousins' face, and I... Cousins goes by me, and I'm like, "Don't take a picture. Don't take a picture. This man could kill you."
2:39
And finally, he gets past me, and I take this picture that has the equipment manager and everybody else, and n- nobody would've seen it.
2:47
And no, no there's never photographers down in the locker room like that in the middle of the game. You know, nobody would've seen it.
2:51
Nobody would've known this had happened, but there just happens to be a New York Times photographer- Yeah... standing down there doing a story on the equipment manager.
2:58
So I text the reporter, I'm like, "Man, you won't believe what's happening down here."
3:02
And it wound up shaping the entire story, was like, you know, the equipment manager, who cares so much that he's standing in front of like this freight train coming towards Kevin Durant underneath the stadium.
3:11
But it, it just speaks to like, you know, you never know where stories are gonna take you, and it also speaks to like the visual storytellers are often the ones who are right there in the moment and who really can see and understand a story because they spend the most time possible in a newsroom out in the field- Yeah...
3:29
out in the world with real people. Um- That's insane. Yeah. [laughs] I've got the picture. I'll, I'll share it with you for the- Send it. Yeah- Sure... send it over. Well, it's, uh, kind of interesting.
3:37
I mean, there's like a, there's a connection there a little bit because, you know, w- at least with some of the stuff I'm doing, it's like it's very easy to kinda go and do the surface level stuff.
3:47
But until you go layers deeper on meeting someone or talking to someone, do you get that really interesting stuff.
3:52
And there's kind of a, a similarity there with what you're saying, where you're like, "Ah, I'm just sorta happening to be here in this environment and this space," and then, uh, uh, I guess a brawl of sorts [laughs].
4:02
Yeah. Right? So, well how'd you, how'd you get into this space? 'Cause you're done, you have... You're in San Diego, but you... Are you SDSU? Yeah. Is that your connection to San Diego? How'd you get here?
4:12
No, my, I, I got here by plane when I was three- Okay... and a half years old. I was, I moved from New Zealand, and I spent, I grew up here.
4:19
I spent my life here, um, until I moved to New York, uh, for four years, where I was working with The New York Times, um, covering the nation. Yeah.
4:27
Um, and, uh, came back when we had our first kid and, uh, yeah, I spent some time working at the Union Tribune, where I, I ran the photo department, photo and video team there.
4:38
And, uh, you know, after we got bought one hedge fund after the other, and I, I just decided it was time to start- Yeah... my own thing. That, that got me back to San Diego. That makes sense.
4:47
Yeah, I w- I was curious about that because there are... Yeah, there was a lot of San Diego connections, but when you get pulled to New York... Would you even say you were headquartered in New York?
4:55
Because it sounds like you were there on a plane though constantly, so were you really, you know, were you really, like, embedding in New York, or did you always feel like San Diego was kinda the home?
5:04
Yeah, San D- I mean, San Diego's always home. Um, I, I definitely got really embedded in New York because, like, when you're a freelance photojournalist, like, I was doing a couple hundred assignments a year, you know?
5:15
So some of those are traveling, like I was covering the 2016 presidential election all across the country. Right. But I'd come back.
5:21
Like, I'd need and want to keep working, so I'd be doing s- assignments all around the city as well.
5:25
And I think I got a really good introduction to New York City because you're in all five boroughs, you know, throughout the week.
5:32
You are like, you are really getting the places that most folks who live in New York City, they don't, they don't necessarily get to. Sure. And also into people's lives and homes as well in all those neighborhoods.
5:42
So I got a lot of flavor of New York, but I also spent a lot of time on a plane, enough so that I'm like, "I'm good now. We're here in San Diego." Like, is- Uh- I don't need to be on a plane too much. [laughs] It's fair.
5:53
No, that, that makes a lot of sense. I, I've been, I've been fascinating kind of with your journey and not...
5:59
Some of it's because you've been around some pretty impressive people, some people that many of us don't get the actual, you know, the lens of, the under the stadium lens of.
6:07
Um, but you also You know, I've been thinking a lot about storytelling and how we, as, you know, city tell stories. Uh, I think that we kind of... You could say we have a little bit of a problem telling our own story.
6:18
I think for, for, in many ways really good. Um, we don't brag about what we're doing, but we also have, you know, industries that are, are kinda hard to tell stories about.
6:27
And so I've been kind of excited to talk to you about just how do you even, you know, how do you even think about that? And, and you've taken the visual, you know, angle.
6:34
How do you take, you know, tell a story in photos and then kind of brought it back, you know, the other way.
6:39
But I don't know if you have some thoughts on how at least we can do a better job of telling stories, or how do you even think about telling a story from, you know, your time at the Tribune and kind of where we are now?
6:49
Do you resonate with, like, that analysis on San Diego? Yeah, I mean, I think one thing, you know, I've, I've heard our, our current mayor say a lot of times, like, talk about us as a big city and wanna say- Yeah...
6:59
that we're a big city. And one of the things that I note that big cities don't do is tell everybody all the time that they're a big city. Hmm. So and, and the reason is 'cause they show us, they don't tell us, right? Mm.
7:10
And that's like the best storytelling shows you, not just visual storytelling. Yeah.
7:15
Like, even when you're writing, uh, you're not just saying, you know, "We have the greatest widget in the world," you're s- you're showing them what the widget does- Right...
7:24
explains to them wh- what, what the differentiators are. So, uh, I think that San Diego gets in its own way a little bit- Hmm... by wanting to be a big city. I think that some of that- Hmm...
7:34
effort then makes us not really, uh, appear like one. It's like you have to act like you've been there while still communicating your value, right? That's fair. Yeah.
7:43
Yeah, because there's, there's sort of this pushback you'll get from certain people or maybe most people when you say, you know, you always compare yourself on the lists of capital raised, and it's like, oh, New York and, you know, Boston in certain instances, and San Francisco obviously at the top.
7:56
And so now they're on the list of comparison, and so you don't get to actually kind of be who you are, which frankly is why I like w- this city. I mean, it's like how this operates.
8:05
It's kind of why, you know, operate the way I do. But it sounds like you've kind of, you've lived here your whole life and can kind of feel it and have seen it kind of a, of change too.
8:13
Yeah, and the stories don't have to be about comparisons to other places either. Like, I think that that could be, that could be part of the issue there.
8:20
Like, we, we don't need to frame ourself really against other cities. We just need to be who we are. Right.
8:25
And it's what I've been fascinated about following you, is that you kind of operate in a space that I don't really know a lot about. Like, I know a lot about community in San Diego. Hmm.
8:33
I know a lot about our nonprofits, our community organizations, our governmental sector, and I don't know a lot about the tech world.
8:40
And so, you know, part of me is, has to wonder if that's because I'm not paying attention in the right places, or th- the other part of me- Yeah...
8:46
thinks maybe that information just isn't really being gathered and shared in the right way, which I feel like is a- Yeah... problem that you have started solving. So as I've wanted to learn more about that space- Yeah...
8:57
I don't know where to turn other than The Coyote right now. Well, I think that's a good point. I mean, I'm, I'm kind of... It's funny because I started to figure that out.
9:07
I try, try to answer maybe the question that you're talking about 'cause like you said, it's like, you know, are we, are we really that small? Is there, is there, isn't there a lot going on? And, and so- Yeah...
9:16
you know, you go to try to answer that question, and then you, you, you find that there's a company out of Vista that's pulling clean drinking water out of like thin air. I read that this morning. Right. And so- Yeah.
9:26
[laughs]...
9:26
so I didn't know that was, I didn't know that even existed until I started searching, and they had been, you know, they had won like the Clean Tech Innovation Award, y- you know, with, through a cohort here at dot org.
9:36
Um, and I just didn't know that was here.
9:38
And so I think that's kind of part of the story that we can tell, I, I think is kind of maybe helping people find this stuff, but I don't know why it's, it's so hard to kind of bring to the surface.
9:49
And I think some of it is just potentially because there's just a lot of content just being churned out, and maybe it buries some of it, or it's kind of what we look for. But I, I, I kind of agree with you.
9:59
I mean, we are, we are a big city with a lot happening, and it's, and it's everywhere, and maybe that's part of the, the challenge.
10:05
I mean, look, a lot of this stuff used to get covered in newspapers and in traditional media. Hmm. Okay.
10:11
I mean, this is, this is stuff that 20 years ago when I started in journalism and things were starting to come unraveled- Yeah... in the business models, that those organizations were much larger.
10:24
And- Okay, interesting... and, and they would have teams of people dedicated to this beat.
10:28
I mean, when I left the UT, I think the business desk had eight or nine people, which is still good, but when you think about one of those reporters is dedicated to housing, you know- Hmm...
10:37
one of them is kind of dedicated- Yeah... to like land use and zoning kind of issues, right? Uh, one of them might be dedicated to small business.
10:44
You know, at one point we had reporters covering startups, but even that was like a reporter. Right. And that is the flagship newspaper of our city.
10:54
A r- a reporter covering that one, one perspective, one point of view, um, that's just not enough. I know when I, when I was born in 1984, I think it was the Union Tribune photo department had like 47 people.
11:06
Oh, interesting. And when I took over it had like six, and we rebuilt it to 10. Oh, man. And then it shrunk again since then. So like it, the, the newspapers- Huh...
11:18
like they're, they're, it's not just the newspapers but- Yeah... the TV stations, I mean, everyone else, um, th- there's just not the resources.
11:24
And like a lot of what happens then is that some of this stuff winds up getting picked up by different, different blogs and different social accounts and things like that. But that's again like one person.
11:34
I mean, you're one perspective, right? Sure. You're doing a great job at it. But like to really tell San Diego's story at scale, like you need a team- Yeah... frankly. Yeah. You need like,
11:45
you need like 10 people at least, and the funding to make that happen to do that sustainably in an intelligent way. I, I'm, I'm... That's actually a real interesting point.
11:55
I was thinking about can, maybe can, can AI bring that down to two people, five people? It's gonna be interesting to see. Yeah. Um, but, uh, that's a really good point. Kind of the, the way that-
12:10
So in, in some ways, maybe the, the sh- the change in business model has been one of the challenges for how coverage is actually happening. It's almost hurting the city- Yeah...
12:20
because, like, some central thing isn't able to distribute kind of what they're finding. There, there's a new tech reporter now, but I'm not sure, but it's one person, right? Again. Yeah, totally.
12:27
It's one person, and that's the thing, like, yes, AI can make, like, like, uh, taking the information and synthesizing it and sharing it and distributing it, it can help with all that.
12:37
It can even help with gathering it in a lot of ways. Sure. But it cannot replicate what you are doing right now. Mm. It cannot replicate going out and meeting humans face to face. That's true.
12:45
I'm sure someone will tell you, "Well, actually this model can, you know, d- [laughs] kind of replicate that." Fair. Fair. But, like, but there is no substitute- Right...
12:53
for, for human interaction and for humans going out- Yeah... and understanding things.
12:57
And in my line of work with the visual storytelling, again, yeah, I guess you could build robots to go do it all, but, like, uh, I've always said my job is g- uh, protected because I carry things, you know? Like- Sure...
13:07
I have to carry my cameras and all my gear into these situations.
13:10
And you go and you find out things, and like I said in that first story, like, your assumptions about what is gonna happen and what the story is are upended when they happen. Yeah.
13:21
And I think that AI will help get the, like, cohesive, straight, normal narrative out, but it won't be as great at, like, having their assumptions challenged on the ground.
13:31
And the best stories always come out of, like, let's get all the data, let's get all the information, let's get all the facts, and then let's go take it out into the real world and test it against the- Yeah...
13:41
actual world, and then have our assumptions challenged by that. It was interesting you say that. I don't mean, uh, 'cause, 'cause a lotta times that's, right.
13:49
You, so you get out there and you're like, "I fully intend to go this direction. But wait, hold on. You just said something interesting over here. Let's go take kind of a, a turn." Yeah.
13:59
And that's sometimes where the most fun things kind of come out of where, which is partly what I like about networking is just you're kinda like, "Oh, well, you're from New Zea- Like, hold- Yeah...
14:08
like, let's go, let's go that direction for a second and we'll come back to, you know, maybe this, this, like, central theme of or whatever it is eventually."
14:15
But maybe the more fun stuff is just the things that you couldn't possibly synthesize 'cause you couldn't know unless you're sitting there kind of together.
14:21
We did a big project at the UT called Crime Counts that was all about looking at violent crime data in the city, and we had had really steadily declining violent crime rates in the city. Mm.
14:30
But the point of the story, it looked at census tract level data, and so the, our approach was saying, like, "Yes, but if you live in a pocket of violent crime- Mm. Mm... like, violent crime is still up for you.
14:40
If it's up in your little neighborhood- Yeah, yeah. It's still up... violent crime is up, right? Doesn't matter what's happening in the rest of the city." Mm.
14:46
So then we would take that and we'd go to each of these neighborhoods, and I remember going to the first one and one of the reporters saying, like, "Oh, we've got a few quotes. I think we're good."
14:53
And I'm like, "No, we need to go to, like, every storefront and actually find out, c- confirm if what we're learning is true."
14:59
One of these, we went to a neighborhood where violent crime was way up, and we finally got to a house who said, "Oh yeah, I can explain all of that. Look at all the calls. Look at it.
15:06
It's this one house across the street- Mm. Yeah... that had fallen, you know, from generation to generation into some hands where people had a lot of trouble.
15:14
And all of this stemmed from this one house, and our, our neighborhood actually doesn't have a violent crime problem, but all of the ca- all of the calls got, came to this one single house, and that problem has been dealt with now."
15:25
Yeah. And it, it was like, like, I dare AI- Yeah... to find that woman's voice and then go into her apartment- Huh... and photograph her and get her, the picture of her overlooking the house and all that, right? Yeah.
15:36
That's fascinating. That's really interesting. Yeah, you're right, because of the averages, you could kinda, you wouldn't have ever identified that. Right. You may have gotten close.
15:43
You probably would've hit the neighborhood and said, "This neighborhood's violent." Yeah. Uh, in that, in that case, but you probably never would've identified literally to the house. Yeah. That's wild.
15:51
So that was a, that was one of the San Diego stories. Well, one of, yeah. You t- take 20 years in journalism. Yeah. One of very many, yeah.
15:59
What do you, I mean, what do you think s- you're, you're starting, you're telling a lot of stories and you're working with some pretty cool groups. Yeah.
16:05
Um, w- who, tell me who you're working with and then I kinda wanna understand how you're looking and seeing some of the, you know, some of the developing stories, especially if it touches tech, but maybe that's not...
16:15
I mean, business building is building, I think, techs and everything, so it's not really that critical to hit that, but... Yeah.
16:21
Um, so a lot of what our company does now is that we work with community organizations in San Diego- Yeah... to help them tell their stories.
16:28
A lot of those are nonprofit organizations, so we do a lot of, like, documentary storytelling for groups like Feeding San Diego- Mm... um, the Girl Scouts of San Diego.
16:37
We work with a group called the Tijuana River Coalition that's trying to advance solutions to the Tijuana River crisis. Mm. Tijuana River Valley crisis.
16:43
Um, we work with a, a childcare advocacy organization called the Children First Collective to, again, advance solutions for making sure that families can afford childcare in San Diego- Yeah, that's big...
16:55
and that providers can afford to live here. Um, and, uh, and a ton of others that, that work along those lines. Um, and it's funny you say developing stories.
17:04
We even work with a local, uh, camera store called, uh, Camera Exposure, where we run a feature for them called Developing Stories- That's cool...
17:10
where we tell stories about San Diego through the eyes of film photographers. So all, all organizations that are trying to make San Diego move forward in some way.
17:20
Um, and int- you know, I've always thought that there's gotta be a ton of tech organizations that are maybe not even just focused in San Diego, but by the sheer act of growing a good company- Mm...
17:30
a good ethical company that creates jobs in San Diego, they are advancing San Diego as well. So, you know, we're always interested in learning about your... That's why I'm interested- Yeah...
17:39
in, in learning about your audience- Yeah, yeah... as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense.
17:42
I mean, I think that's what, that's partly why I like these conversations, how we've kinda collaborated on a couple things. So we're kind of approaching it, you know, from different angles.
17:49
You're teaching me, you know, about storytelling photography. Setting up, up this camera is actually a really good example is I kind of, kind of enjoy that. Yeah. Um, but I don't know. I mean, I think,
18:00
I think we can Do, do you really think, I mean, do you really think it takes a, it was gonna take a team, uh, multiple team, or is it, it's something that we can do where we can bring in a, a bunch of people together, like, to collaborate on thing?
18:12
'Cause that's another idea that I was thinking might work, is that if you can kinda say bring people together that are looking at different things and kind of have, like, a group that can collaborate.
18:19
Yeah, I mean, there's a lotta good examples of that, of kind of, like, citizen journalism. Mm.
18:24
Um, there's a great organization in San Diego called iNews Source, which is a nonprofit newsroom that, uh, runs a, a project called The Documenters Project. Mm-hmm.
18:32
Uh, the idea being, again, when we had those huge staffs at newspapers, uh, we would have someone at every city council meeting, you know? Yeah. Alcalá City Council meeting, there they are.
18:41
You know, whatever municipal water district- Yeah... we got a reporter there. Uh-huh. And that, that kept a check on public officials as well, right? Mm.
18:48
They knew someone was watching, and a lot of that went away when the staffs decreased.
18:52
And so now they have, uh, teams of people who go out and just document these meetings as well and are there to be the eyes and ears on it. Yeah.
18:58
Now, again, that is something that AI can start to, to do, and at the state level, you've actually seen CalMatters do a similar project I could share with you. But, um, you absolutely could implement that.
19:09
For the sake of the humans who work for you, you eventually have to have a team, because- Yeah... you can't do this all day, every day- True...
19:16
365 days a year, and you just, uh, I, I think a big part of it is about having those different perspectives on your team- Right... as well. So, um- Oh, that's interesting. R- like, um, uh, diversity of thought.
19:28
Diversity of thought. Yeah. 100%. That, that's, that's critical to, to doing storytelling well. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that is really interesting. So wait, what, how are you, what is, what is, uh,
19:43
the chain, you know, as you s- you said you s- you came in to the Tribune or, or maybe papers in general. As you see kinda the shift in staffing and the business model changing, is there just a void now?
19:53
Is that kind of what it seems to be happening? There is a massive void. Okay. A massive void, and that's part of what we were set up, um, to fill.
20:04
Again, like as photojournalists, a lot of the stuff we would do, like, yeah, we'd work on the big investigations and the big projects- Yeah... but we'd also go out and just cover the Adams Avenue Street Fair. Yeah.
20:13
Let's cover the things that are going on in the community every day.
20:16
And, um, the less resources there are for newsrooms, the more that I think that those newsrooms should be dedicating those resources toward their public ac- accountability role- Mm... toward being the fourth estate.
20:27
Uh, and, and so that means that a lot of those, like, basic community events and things like that don't get covered. Mm-hmm. So that's where we come in and fill a need, right?
20:37
Those organizations can hire someone to cover them themselves. There's not anything that controversial about- Right... the street fair or about, you know, the big Juneteenth event that happens or whatever it might be.
20:47
So those organizations can cover those themselves, I think. Yeah. It's an interesting point, 'cause it's like you almost wonder, can an army of, like, independent newsletter podcasters cover, like, take, cover a city?
21:01
But what's end, gonna end up happening is you're just gonna have... You have potential voids, because the business model isn't actually...
21:08
It's similar enough, I think, to the way that newspapers are structured, that it's kinda hard to just say, you know, find a whole bunch of, I don't know, influencers, if you will, to take over all that and be like, "I'm the, I don't know, I, I'm the s- city, San Diego Street, City Street Fair influencer," or the like- Yeah...
21:23
the, that, like, biotech specific. I mean, that maybe- You, you s-... is, is better, but...
21:28
you see that happening a lot, but those, I mean, again, like when we've covered the Street Fair, we've been hired by the Adams Avenue Business Association- Yeah... to cover it. So it is not independent coverage. Yeah.
21:39
Like, we are, we are forthright about that.
21:41
We also say, we, I also know that that business model is growing, and I would like to have very honest people who have ethics that were born out of journalism, but maybe don't stick to every single rule- Mm...
21:53
that journalism has- Yeah... um, in place, uh, so that we're still truthful, we're still honest in our storytelling. Yeah. And part of that honesty is saying, "Yeah, we are, we were hired by this organization to do this.
22:04
This is, this is not straight journalism as it's traditionally defined in America today." Defined how? Like, there's a, a, a level of independence?
22:13
A level of independence and, uh, you know, newsrooms would say objectivity that flows from that. Yeah. Uh, and I think there are, there are a lot of rules in place to, to make objectivity real- Yeah...
22:23
even if the humans aren't necessarily actually objective themselves. They're- Oh, right... they're not. They're human. They, humans are humans. That's a really interesting point.
22:31
Yo, so what happens, what happens when, like, are... Where do these tech reporters go?
22:37
Are they, are, you know, or, or reporters in general, if that's more for- more familiar, but, like, are they starting their own thing, or are they just leaving the industry completely?
22:46
'Cause y- you said there's a void, and that makes sense. You kind of feel that way?
22:50
You kind of feel like th- papers are getting thinner, or it's kinda getting more paywalled, it's a little harder to access, or it's just sort of shifting, I guess? Yeah.
22:57
One of our biggest, you know, tech sources is paywalled, you know? And so you, you have a lot of articles, but I, I don't, I don't read it. The Business Journal? Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't get it.
23:07
I'm sure there's a lot of great stuff in there. It's just not hitting, you know, hitting my desk. Yeah, and it's, it's gotta be paywalled, because- Mm... uh, that's the only business model that has proven...
23:16
Well, not the only. It is one of the only business models that's pr- proven to potentially be sustainable- Yeah... in, in news, right? The New York Times has obviously, like, pioneered the way in that. Yeah, true.
23:25
And they have shown that it can be, it, that it can work at their scale. Smaller newsrooms have had a lot of trouble.
23:31
I mean, when we were, we were on a path at the UT before we were purchased to potentially reach our goals around getting local subscribers- Yeah...
23:39
or subscribership, um, to sustain the business model, but it was, it's a slog, uh, attaining and- Yeah... maintaining subscribers for, and finding the right price point and all of that. Yeah.
23:50
Um, but yeah, the, the void, um, the, the void exists. It's real, and I, yeah, I think a lot of it right now is getting, it's, you know, it's popping up on Substack or wherever else it might be. Yeah.
24:02
But that makes it hard to discover, right? It makes it hard to... And I don't know that the answer is just, like, aggregating all of it. Yeah.
24:08
I think, frankly, ho- honestly, in a city like San Diego, in a region like San Diego, we should have a 10-person organization that just covers our, our tech industry or even our business. Yeah. That's fair.
24:20
Like, that, that should just happen. So if you don't wanna do that, I'll, I'll just, I'll, I'll take it up. [laughs] No, I think, yeah, right? Yeah. Well, there's, there's probably a partnership there of some sort.
24:28
Yeah, yeah. [laughs] I, I think, um, I think we need it. Yeah. We certainly do.
24:32
And, and the f- simply the fact that we're, you know, that I'm kind of just like everybody else, like running around discovering this stuff for the first time, it's... That's what I mean.
24:40
It's why I find it so fascinating and exciting, you know? But you've, you've found a lot of... I mean, what's your, what's your reach like now? Are, are we willing to share that with the other Coyotes? Um, yeah.
24:48
I mean, it's getting... So there's, there's a couple of different, um, there's a couple of different buckets. Um, the social's about 2,700. Okay. Yeah. Um, career's a- uh, almost 11.
24:59
And then, um, LinkedIn's just hit, uh, 8,000. Great. So that's starting to find a little traction too. Wow. And, um, you know, I don't know. I don't, I, I don't typically like to talk about that stuff- Yeah...
25:09
but I like, I, I like that it's resonating with people enough and they're finding, uh, they're finding, you know, connections with other people groups and companies, and those stories are starting to come back.
25:19
'Cause in some ways that's one of the hardest parts about doing something like this, is you're like, "Monday, send. Boop." And you send it out and you're like, "Oh, cool. Some people read it."
25:26
But then when you run into someone in person who's like, "Yo, I met this person at this event, and now we're doing X project," I'm like, that's, that's why. Yeah. That's why you do it. That's awesome.
25:34
And those numbers do matter. Like, the, I- Yeah... I understand that's not, like, your focus of talking about that, but that matters especially because part of what you're doing is aggregating, right? You're- True.
25:43
But, but again, like, AI could aggregate it all- True... and send that out every week. True. But you provide perspective. You may even write some of it with AI, I don't know. But you- Right...
25:52
you provide perspective and insight from on the ground. That's exactly what I'm talking about- Right... is, is the value that, that humans add to it.
26:00
And so you can imagine, like, as that, as that reach continues to grow- Right... as more and more people come into the, the ecosystem that you have, that you do need other folks to staff that.
26:11
If you wanna go out and create, like, highly visual stories about some of these- For real... organizations or whatever, you know, you can hire subcontractors, whatever it might be.
26:19
But I, I think that, uh, I think that at some point you wanna have a team around you. I think you're right. To be honest. No, I think you're right. I think part- You can even...
26:27
One, I mean, one of the, the obvious examples is, you know, there's, there's six, five to six really good events a week.
26:37
There's 10 that are probably pretty good, and there's a ton more that it's just hard to tell until you're there. And if you're there, it could be awesome. It's just hard to know.
26:45
Um, and, and many of them are at the same day, same time. Actually, they cluster, like Tuesday to Thursday. So you can, you can... Like, good luck getting to everything. Yeah.
26:53
So even just having people who are kind of cruising the different things and, a- and at least we're reporting back. I mean, it's like, "Here's why this was great," or, "Here's what they're doing that's interesting."
27:02
Or even having some sort of intel that would make the whole thing better because then you'd actually know, is this the type of community that's sort of growing and worth sharing again?
27:10
Or, or maybe, um, maybe there's something there that I didn't realize or we didn't realize is why you should really be there. Oh, you know, there's a hub of this type of, of community member.
27:18
You should really go if you're in this sort of persona. Um, so that, I mean, that alone would be really valuable to kind of build and, and put together. Yeah. I'm, I'm totally, totally with you.
27:28
You've started by just kind of collecting all the events, right? Right. But you've grown into providing a lot more than that. Right. And, uh, and yeah, if you had...
27:41
You're doing the work that reporters are desperate to do. Mm-hmm. Like, when you start as a reporter, when you get started on a new beat- Yeah... the traditional thing is to be given two weeks to just go meet people.
27:51
Oh, cool. You don't, you don't have to write any stories. You go and you just meet people. And here's the Rolodex from the last person who covered this beat, you know? Oh, interesting. Go and call a bunch of those folks.
28:01
And when those two weeks are up, you, you start writing. But you're, you're still investing a lot of your time doing that, and reporters are often investing a lot of their time, like, writing the stories- Mm...
28:13
and putting them together and dealing with the very, you know, real things that have to happen in a newsroom to get it ready for publication. True.
28:21
Um, and then more often than not, because they're so stretched and they have to provide so much to keep the organization running, they're, "I can't go to the event. I'm on the phone. I'm just, I'm gonna get a quote."
28:33
And getting a quote is so different than, like, learning something from someone, right? Ah.
28:38
So a lot of time they're having to call and go like, you know, "I've got a half hour to get this thing out," and, and it's like, "I almost just need you to say the thing that I know you're gonna say anyway," right?
28:49
That's so... Yeah, no, that's true. No shade on the reporters. They're, they're just trying to get through the day. [laughs] That's right. They don't wanna do it this way either. Yeah.
28:54
But you, you're having the investment that reporters wanna have. They would kill to have your, your, your freedom to go do that, you know? That, that's amazing. I, I had no idea 'cause I, I...
29:04
It's a really, really good point. What kind of s- I mean, what are they kinda doing? Like, what's that look like for them? Are they, are they, you know, sort of meeting people for two weeks?
29:12
I mean, I'm, maybe I've been doing this for years, but, like, w- are they just trying to catch every angle of everything and then they synthesize kind of the, what they see? Or how do you even think about that?
29:23
I mean, when I would go and source build, you certainly, like, want to get more sources out of each source, right? Yeah. So you want it to, to compound on itself, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay, okay.
29:34
Um, but yeah, you're looking for, like, a few simple stories to start- Yeah... usually out of the gate. Um, depends what type of reporter you are and how hungry you are- Yeah. True...
29:43
and how, how much you look, want the accountability role 'cause a lot of times you're building sources that maybe y- you're gonna be writing not great things about at some point, right, down the line. Right.
29:51
So, uh, there's- I guess that's true. It's the difference I have where I'm like, "I'm trying to hype you and this all up," so it, it's maybe a different perspective.
29:58
And, and the difference that, that I have these days as well, I mean, our mission now is to inspire action with honest storytelling that uplifts our community. Mm-hmm. And journalism would...
30:08
I mean, a lot of their, uh, credos, think of the Washington Post, was democracy dies in darkness, right? Mm.
30:13
I mean, a lot of their mission is to go after the stories that are untold because somebody is hiding them from you, and that's a great role for them to have.
30:22
But there's also, like, there's-- That's not all that journalism is. Right. That's what post-Watergate American journalism is. Ah, interesting.
30:30
It's-- But it's not all of what journalism is, and there's a lot more to it that does involve helping lift up the community by- Yeah... holding a mirror to it. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm.
30:39
And that's what kinda what you're doing, is you're holding a mirror up to the tech community a little bit. I think that's fair.
30:44
Well, okay, tell me what you think about this perspective 'cause in some ways I'm taking the philosophy of, um, share it if it's great, and then sh- do, share nothing if I don't see that it's an, an amazing thing, which is maybe not totally the best for the community in some sense 'cause I'm like, "Ah, you know, I don't, I don't necessarily agree with that" or, or Blue- Don't say anything...
31:05
says I'm good. You're just kind of like, you're like, "Okay, well, maybe it'll improve."
31:07
But it's al- it's almost like on- only highlighting the things that I think are, you know, in, in my one, you know, perspective are, are really great for the city or doing really great or kinda succeeding in some way.
31:17
Yeah, you're doing don't, don't say anything if you don't have something nice to say. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. I think that's fine just as long as everybody knows that's what you're doing. Mm-hmm.
31:25
Um, you know, I think that if you developed out, like a, a, a bigger t- m- kind of media brand out of what- Yeah... you're doing, I think at some point you would have to cover the flops, the fails, and the controversies.
31:39
Um- Mm, fair... and, you know, a lot of ti-- We still do that in some ways as well, even with our own clients. Like, there's still, there ha- there has to be tension in a story. Yeah.
31:48
Like, a story doesn't exist without tension. Yeah. So I see, see you frame it all the time. Like today's, uh, talking about- Yeah... you know, here's, here's the problem. Water, you know, we have- Yeah...
31:57
water is scarce, right? Yeah. There's the tension, right? And here's- Here's the-... here's the solution where it's coming to it.
32:02
But- Yeah, it's not tensionless and like pure cheerleader, but there's definitely, like- If you really wanted to know what was going on in tech in San Diego, you'd need to know when it was taking its lumps as well 'cause otherwise, like, yeah, you're learning about opportunities, and that's fantastic.
32:15
But somebody has to be telling us about the challenges and the lumps- Yeah... and all that stuff as well, so. I wonder who's doing it. Yeah. Wait, I'm, I'd be curious who's doing that. It'd be funny.
32:24
Maybe they're like a partner. Yeah. It's like the, the growl. [laughs] Yeah. The growl. Yeah. The howl and the growl. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. If you need a little growl, we can, we can help add some growl to it. A growl.
32:33
And I think you'll need a little growl at some point. That actually, that makes a lot of sense. Um, I like that. Well, what, um, what do you think, what, what do you think would be, like, a highlight?
32:44
Or what's one thing that you think someone should take away from this conversation? Yeah. The-- Well, from this conversation, um, maybe it's that you and I could sit and rap for, like, hours on media. [laughs] Right?
32:59
Fair. Um, I mean, like, one of the, one of the things I didn't mention at all, can I give... It's, like, kind of a shout-out, but something that I- Yeah... actually really wanna see in San Diego. Yeah, let's hear it.
33:08
So the, one, the first way, one of the first ways I connected with you after the birthday party was- Yeah... I'm part of this group Business for Good, right? Yeah. Right. Um, in San Diego.
33:15
I'm on the board of directors, and this is an organization that's basically dedicated to the idea that businesses can be about people over profit, right? Yeah. Or even people and profit. Sure.
33:24
That those two can coexist, right? Right. And, uh, and I know that there are a lot of tech companies that are, are set up to do good in the world. Right. Uh, and that's--
33:37
I, I've founded my company under those principles. Like, hey, we can be an ethical employer, and we can be for the benefit of the community, and we can all make money while we're doing it. Sure.
33:45
You know, everybody in, in my office, we're not, we're not a nonprofit in there, and they don't feel like their salaries are capped at where they are today because they feel like if they're really part of some, you know, rocket fuel growth, that they're gonna see upside from that, and at the same time, we're gonna do good in the community.
34:01
So I think there's, like, a ton of opportunity for that in your space- Mm-hmm... and that's what I want to understand. Like, who in San Diego is not only doing, making great things for the wor- for, for profit- Yeah...
34:15
but who is making great things for the world and being great to their employees- Mm-hmm... along the way? Like, that's what I wanna find out about and what, what I would love our, like, the audience here- Yeah...
34:27
to, to tap into in themselves and to, to share with us. Like, I wanna learn more about that ecosystem in San Diego. Yeah. That, I like that a lot.
34:37
That, and that, and that kind of comes to the storytelling because I think sometimes those stories are hard to tell without, you know, tooting your own horn in a, in a way because o- on the inside, you're like, "Look how much good stuff we did for our people," and you're like, "All right, eye roll."
34:51
But, like, how do you tell that story from the inside that, that shows that you're doing something great, that shows that you're helping, you know, your people, that you're leveling up your people without kind of bragging about yourself, is, like, such a, an interesting tension.
35:03
Yeah. And outside of, outside of the, the bubble that you all exist in, I don't- Mm-hmm... say that in a derogatory way- Yeah... but we all kind of exist in our own, right? Like, you say A and I- Mm...
35:13
together, and everyone's like, "You are killing world," right? Fair. And there's a lot there, right? Mm-hmm. There is a lot to unpack there. Um,
35:23
and I'm sure a lot of these organizations are like, "No, no, no, but we're also coming up with a solution. We're also-- We're actually helping the world." Yeah.
35:31
"There's a lot that we can do to shape the world, and this is here." Right. "This is here, and we're trying to harness it in a smart way that's good for everyone," right?
35:40
So I think that there's a lot of explaining to do, not, again, not in like a bad way. Yeah. Like, there's a lot that- Storytelling... there's a lot of storytelling that can be done around that in San Diego.
35:50
Um, and then, yeah, being an ethical employer, like, hopefully your employees also just, like, share that o- out about you, and- That's a good point... and, and you don't, you don't wanna...
36:00
You know, Business for Good is very intentional about not being an organization that won't help organizations greenwash, right? Right. We're not gonna be here, you just join us, and then you say, "See?
36:09
We're a g- we're a good employer-" Yeah... "because we joined the organization," right? Um, and, uh, you know, there are things like becoming a B corporation that, that-- or a public benefit or corporation- Yeah...
36:20
that, that different organizations could do to not only demonstrate that they care about the world but codify in their governing, governing documents that they must act in certain ways toward their employees and the environment.
36:34
That is where I would love to see, like, a ton of growth- Yeah... in the, in the next few years.
36:38
If we get another 50, 100 of those organizations that you were talking about in San Diego to become B corporations, as, as we hope to become one day- Mm-hmm...
36:48
to go down that path, uh, then just think about the impact of that on San Diego, on like our, on our business ecosystem here if that many employers are, are promising in their governing documents to take care of the people who work for them.
37:04
Think about how that could change- Yeah... San Diego. The, the, the energy around it, amazing. Yeah. Thanks for having me in your den, Sam. Good to be here. Awesome. I like that close too. Yeah. I hope you hit record.
37:18
Right? Yeah. SD pack moves low-key. Signal in the wire, yeah, they find me through the feed. Howl in the night, not a whole core in sync. Two new next, need the fool, we order a drink.
37:27
No stage, no pitch, just a nod and a grin. Walking solo, know you walk out with friends. From the street to the circle, let the right ones in. Social coyote, welcome to the den. Den, den, den, den, den. Oh.
37:40
Den, den, den, den
Into the Den
Listen on
Apple Podcasts
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Spotify
Recent episodes
Kris Lichter - TL Foundation
Jul 3, 2026
James Zanewicz - Connect
May 28, 2026
Alex Waters - The Program Labs
May 19, 2026
Ross Young - Clinically AI
Apr 23, 2026
